Coders Strike Back : The future?

Hmmm just have to read your first post… you where speaking about changes between multiplayer game and the contest… complaining about the changes of input on low lvl league, your coulnd use you IA from the contest…

@ MadKnight Yes, 14 in 2014… 5 in 2015 (more ppl, hardest to manage…)

play PR2, it’s better, and my AI is better there

I’m sorry grandjeanrenald, but I fail to understand your point. It’s not clear : are you saying people should all play the multi-game together at the same time ? What you propose doesn’t seem very different from a contest.

On the other hand, Magus was very clear and articulate, and I see no contradiction in his arguments.

Multi games can stay competitive as evidenced recently on the PokerChipRace leaderboard (have a look at the submission dates for the top 5).

@pb4608 was speaking about the diffenrence between a contest (where everyone is on it during all the time) and a multiplayer game where we have all the time:

  • you have near 1 week for a contest: rules used are enough to do a good ranking

  • for multiplayer, you can add more interesting thing, we have more time, we can do hardest things… leagues can help doing that, and make multiplayer more interesting (ok, TOP 5 in Pokerchip changes this week… the others?)

taking 30mn to pass previous league, beeing abble to use my code for gold league… np… but legend deserve improvement… for every “old” contest (so multiplayer game)

that’s my opinion…

and no contradiction on Magus says, just reponding on the first (and second post) where i seen someone complenaing that the multiplayer game is different of the contest…

@MadKnight seen that ^^ for now, my code in the 2 is the Copy/past of the one, will have to improve it :slight_smile:

At the moment it’s 24h. 30 minutes of codes, 23h30 of waiting your promotion. 30 minutes to reach gold league would not be a big problem (frustrating and annoying, but not that big).

does chat work for u, magus? it’s not working here

@Magus Yeah, on that, i’m agree ^^ but i think that if they can do it every hour, they will… i read they use more serv during contest to compute all match… not realy usefull on a multiplayer game…

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i actualy “working” on Platinum rift (to bad i wasn’t here, I like this style of game…) but there is no competition: ppl already copy paste their code, and i play against “ghost” of what ppl have done…

that’s a matter of taste - i like it too when there’re only ghosts with no active players at all

@MadKnight :slight_smile: yes, it’s true, push and respond take LOT less Time :slight_smile: but have you try to push 2-3 times the same IA? on PR2, the diff isn’t obvious, but in pr 1 depending on your First fight, the same IA can Win 100 place (i’m still on 150-250 have to impleement more thing to go higher…)

that’s what i mean too for Multi puzzle: add more rules can help making a better ranking : for PR1 by exemple a bonus for having a continent, etc…

i offered them to add bonuses, but that guy said that bonuses are unnecessary complexity
maybe if u’ll offer specific bonuses, they’ll think of adding these bonuses

and random place in top 150-250 is just 'coz TrueSkill system isn’t made to check skills of AIs with a lot of randomness and a few conditions that’re almost the same for all players between 150-300 places

is chat working for u?

yeah, when i will reach better place, Random will be less significative ^^ finishing IndY hard (i mean Indiana lvl3, not sure in english) this We, but will go back on PR ASAP ^^

I like Multi, just want them to be more used by other ppl… more we are, more the fun ^^ (sry, it’s a try for a french expression ;p)
and no, chat doesn’t work…

looks like they disabled chat to rescue the server

start with PR2, it’s easier and got a better ranking - i always reach 45th place when i submit the current solution

It’s actually even worse for beginners who have to recode from scratch. For you and me, the hassle is merely to burn the silver code and copy/paste the code from the contest…

But that’s the very point, the contest was not refreshed at all in the end: you get through the tediousness of wood/bronze/silver, and then you can just copy/paste your AI from the contest in gold.

In my opinion, a complete refresh of the contest would have been a better way out for everybody. That is, a succession of leaguyes such that the legend league looks like the old contest (in terms of features, not inputs), but with a natural progression from wood to legend, without ever obsoleting any code. Then old players could just play it as a new game looking like an old one, and they wouldn’t have a huge headstart over newcomers.

Je comprends les deux points de vue ;

  • je suis assez “vieux” sur Codingame pour comprendre la frustration de Magus à refaire des étapes qu’il a déja traversé mentalement.
  • néanmoins, je suis assez nouveau pour comprendre le point de vue de nouveaux (d’ailleurs, j’ai des copains qui sont venus et apprécient énormément la notion de league (apprentissage), même si les règles et le code nécessite des adaptations en changeant de ligue.

Je suis néanmoins d’accord avec GrandJean : si les challenges ne sont qu’un simple copier-coller des contests … j’ai du mal à voir l’intérêt : c’est double bénéfice pour ceux qui ont fais le contest : un code qui rapporte double-point sans aucune modification !

donc que les règles du contest soient dans le challenge, pourquoi pas. Mais alors, en or ; auparavant, on accompagne avec des challenges sympa et en légende, on va plus loin que le contest (normal, un contest, c’est 8 jour, la league legend sur un challenge, on a tout le temps d’appréhender et de parfaire des règles compliquées.

J’avais fais rapidement le contest CSB, refaire le challenge avec la league en repartant de zéro ne m’a pas posé de problème, la montée est très rapide (beaucoup plus que pour un puzzle très difficile pour plus de points et de gratification personnelle).

En clair, de mon point de vue ;
des contests plus fréquents (toutes les 6 semaines, voire 4) pour les hardcore (car j’arrive aussi à un niveau ou la stimulation du Codingame augmente lorsque s’approche le contest) et des challenges avec leagues qui reprennent les mécanismes en accompagnant les nouveaux joueurs et proposent en legend une difficulté supplémentaire au contest.
Visiblement, c’est ce qui est en train d’être mis en place car la ligue or est quasi le copier-coller du contest.
Bref, bravo à CG et longue vie tant que vous arriverez à faire venir des nouveaux joueurs et faire rester les anciens (difficile gageure), vous aurez gagné.

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The XMPP serve seems to have many problems. But the irc server is still here.

It is the same during a contest when you don’t play many games (like the last). If you have a lose in your first 10 games, submit again. But it’s not related to the league system.

I’m pretty positive about modifying some rules of a contest to post it as a multiplayer.
But precisely once and before posting.

I’m also positive about a tutorial that guides through a basic framework.
(We’ve had a good trailer before: think about the first stage of There Is No Spoon contest.)

BUT, it’s a very bad idea that a long tutorial finally makes you change the entire concept you’ve elaborated from the beginning. This is what I see with CSB-League (between silver and gold).
And yet we do not know (at the moment) what will happen next.
Moreover, what could motivate further modifications at this stage?
Or we’re just waiting to gauge the ‘elite’ league? That would make sense, but it all takes too long.

Now, as a participant of the original CSB contest, I don’t complain too much (just used my previous works). But I’d hate to be a newcomer in CSB-League or any other game that is introduced along these lines.
Just my 2 cents.

what’s your offer for the league system?

Not sure the question was to me, but…
I understand CSB-League was kinda experiment. I’m pretty confident they will hear us there at CG and make some sense of our sometimes divergent propositions :wink:
I have not much original input to add, I’ve liked one post in this thread (you too).

My personal opinion is that the legend league winner should be able to win bronze league loser, that’s all. Therefore there should not be any differences in game rules or inputs between leagues.