The clash of code is quite a fun and challenging exercise, but it feels like the “shortest” type seems flawed by the hudge difference of code length in languages, as someone picking a “short language” will almost always have a shortest code than the heavier ones (asuming the code is complete and pass the tests).
I don’t have any real solution on that “issue”, but I feel it lowers a bit the purpose of having a great IDE with various languages available.
I know this has been discussed before, but I wanted to give my voice to it as I love the codingame challenges (all of them, from puzzle to contests) and I’d like to propose a different kind of challenge/clash/something, in case it hasn’t been thought of and is doable:
Discussing with collegues (with whom we enjoy lunch breaks clashes), we found out that sometime we want a less “stressful” clash than the limited time ones. And we were wondering why wouldn’t a timer-less clash be available?
Another idea came up, more similar to the current clash: Would it be possible to have a mode where a quick timer (1 minutes?) is triggered when the 1st coder commit his code? We thought about it since it would keep the timed challenge aspect, with the duration of the challenge dependent on the faster coder (with some margin for the others) and the ranking would still make sense.
Anyway, thanks to codingame team to propose such intertaining callenges all over this platform!
If I remember correctly, at some point in beta the Clash engine did shorten the timer whenever someone submitted. This might actually result in even more stress and frustration for newcomers, since many players are now able to submit extremely early because they know the puzzles and how to solve them, which would eventually shorten the challenges even more for less skilled players.
Maybe the private clash mode could feature a free timer choice?
For shortest mode, well… everyone is free to experiment and learn Ruby or Bash in addition to C++ or Java - in fact I’d say this has indeed been an incentive for me to learn new languages, which my daily job doesn’t require me to do.
About the shortest mode, I agree that it allows to learn new languages. That is what I am doing. But as you pointed out, it “forces” you to learn Ruby or Bash, nothing else. Once I’ll be able to be efficient using Ruby, I might not find any additional incentive to learn another one (not saying I won’t, I am personaly glad anytime I can learn a new language, but the incentive you talk about won’t be there anymore).
The issue to me is exactly that, you HAVE to use one of those to be efficient. I wish there was a way to compare any language with each other it would make the codingame plateform (allowing to use any language on the fly) to really shine!
Everytime i see this kind of post on shortests clashes, i can’t help myself and i imagine the creator of the post as a “scrub”.
I don’t know how to code in ruby, bash or python. I use javascript. I know i will lose on shortests clashes but well, i don’t really care since i’m able to be in the top 30 with javascript
Why not a handicap system based on which language is more effective for CoC?
Since codingame must have all the results of CoC, it can use it to set a ‘language rank’ which could be computed dynamically to help people that choose java, c++ or javascript. It could remove characters from the total to balance languages. Or add characters to shortest language like perl or bash.
In tournament scenarios, this is exactly the sort of thing that results in certain characters being banned from use in game play or moved into an Uber Tier which is not done the same as the Standard Play Tier.
Considering this exact argument has been found to be faulty in other competitive environments, I suggest you do a bit more research before you start handing out accusations of who is a scrub and who isn’t.
Maybe look into how a lot of the tournaments for Capcom Fighter games are handled, the Smogon Meta games, the Smash Bros tournament communities, etc.
Essentially the argument you are using here, would be one for people playing the UU/RU/NU tier on those other sites. Which by even having those tiers set up, allows better solutions to be targetted within those limitations.
As AGAIN the reason the tier system shows up in competative situations, is because when everybody uses a single character/race/language/etc to win, the whole system becomes fucking pointless.
There is a reason that 1v1 Final Destination, No Items, Fox Only is considered a joke in tournament circles (Usually mocking scrubs acting like they are doing tournament stuff).
The thing is… Ruby and Bash in shortest Code Clash has become Codingame’s own version of Final Destination, No Items, Fox Only. It has even overturned the leaders boards ridiculously making CP fucking meaningless to have.
Hell, I’d did maybe six CoC and only two of them I didn’t get last place (or second last place)… and I managed to get 3k CP from it. Which is MEGA broken and unbalanced. Hell, imaging if I was getting first place from those CoCs? Shit… I’d have gotten into Guru rankings from mostly CoC stuff.
Ultimately… this discussion has been done on several other communities that have opted to go for a tiered system to handle things… and acting like we won’t do it kind of requires another solution to be suggested.
You’d have a point here, if not for the fact that CoC, Shortest Code, Ruby/Bash is very quickly becoming Codingame’s own version of Final Destination, No Items, Fox Only.
Which is where having a tiered system usually comes about as a thing.
I agree that CoC rewards far too much points. It’s easy to be top 30 and rewards you more or less 4800 points. It’s near 50% of the rewarded points for the 1st place in multiplayer puzzles. But it take a few hours to be in the top 30 of CoC. Being the 1st at multiplayer puzzles requires … well … i don’t remember how much time i used on them, but it’s far more than a few hours
The problem is not to climb up to the top 30. The problem is stay in the top 30. It demands everyday play and a form of dedication.
So 5000 points is just fine.
Nope.
Play some game in CoC, once you’re ranked well enough, don’t play anymore, and then you’ll stay in a good rank until someone dethrone you (and it doesn’t happen that often).
I play only 2 clashes by week. It’s far enought to keep me around the top 30. There’s absolutely no “everyday play” needed.
At the moment for example i’m rank 47. And i know if i do 2 clashes (maybe 3) i’ll be between 20 and 30.
But the fact is, i’m 47 and i have 4800 points. Becaue there’s more and more players in CoC. But the max is still 5000. To be fair, every players under the rank 5000 should be ignored and have 0 points. That’s way, the CoC will always assume the number of player is 5000.
Honestly, I’m not going to bother with CoC until the points become a little bit more balanced.
Yeah… I could easily jump into Guru Ranking by doing on CoC (Final Destination, No Items, Fox Only)… and that is exactly why I’m not going to bother with CoC.
Balance the points in CoC… and maybe have there be some reason to use a language that isn’t Ruby for them. I’m okay with learning Ruby… but having to learn it for the purpose of competitive game play, mostly just has me disrespecting the game play I’d be competing with.
Off-Topic:
Just a message to say that the common accepted rules are Final Destination, No items, 3 lives, Bo3. Fox isn’t a top tier character since forever
I might be doing the version that is done in mocking those hipsters that waste their time with Melee.
Edit: Also, I’m more wanting to be Guru via solving puzzles and working on the multiplayer games and doing well in Contests. You know–so I can feel satisfaction about that rank. How CoC is handling it… it just makes it feel cheap… and whorish.
Just do like me : Be the first at the global ladder by doing everything I’m 3rd at multiplayer points and very well placed at all others ladders. CoC is fun, but i think multiplayers puzzles are far more fun.
New post because serious answer here: I think we should be able to select manually to play a shortest code, so far that’s the only one that I can play without being underscored for my lack of copypaste-skills. Seriously, complex puzzle are being solved in less than a minute on fastest code, and I don’t think it’s because they are way faster thinker.
Even if it’s still biased for each language (good luck trying shortest in C or Java), it would allow to take the time to get the appropriate answer, and not a contest of who can code the fastest answering bot.
it would make the codingame plateform (allowing to use any language on the fly) to really shine!
